Scioliosis is caused by infectious disease

[concerned dad]

Why do you keep citing one study that has radically different conclusions that the majority of papers on this that say the concordance is much higher?

Sharon, do you have references for the other twin studies? Perhaps you posted them already but I cant seem to find them (and I understand your argument that it doesnt matter anyway - but still, it would be good to see them)

[Pooka1]

Sharon, do you have references for the other twin studies? Perhaps you posted them already but I cant seem to find them (and I understand your argument that it doesnt matter anyway - but still, it would be good to see them)

I cribbed that comment from P.

[concerned dad]

As long as you dont crib this one

P said: Natural selection doesn't get rid of scoliosis because it does not kill the individual before reproducing. The only way that a scoliosis gene would not transmit is if the curve made people so hideously ugly that no one would ever have sex with them.

[Pooka1]

Yeah I think P was being a touch irrationally exuberant in that particular response to Dingo.

[Dingo]

Natural Selection

concerned dad

Natural selection doesn't get rid of scoliosis because it does not kill the individual before reproducing. The only way that a scoliosis gene would not transmit is if the curve made people so hideously ugly that no one would ever have sex with them.

If natural selection was that weak we'd still be monkeys.

[Pooka1]

If natural selection was that weak we'd still be monkeys.

But please don't taunt the ignorant (i.e., young earth creationists)... humans did not descend from monkeys... rather humans and other primates including monkeys have a common ancestor.

There is enough ignorance from that quarter already; No need to add to it.

[Dingo]

monkeys

Pooka1

humans did not descend from monkeys... rather humans and other primates including monkeys have a common ancestor.

I don't know exactly what humans evolved from, only that it was hairy and ate bananas.

[Pooka1]

Pooka1



I don't know exactly what humans evolved from, only that it was hairy and ate bananas.

It wasn't monkeys. Again, the creationists have enough nonsense in their heads. We need to help them start making sense.

[concerned dad]

I have to agree with Pnuttro when she says

A correlation is not causation.

but while digging through some stuff, I came across the following which I think Dingo will be interested in

JAMA paper
where they mention another study that says:

The results of the study by Brown et al14 revealed a dramatic 7-fold increase in the risk of schizophrenia among the offspring of women who were exposed to influenza during their first trimester of pregnancy.

And, if you google schizophrenia and genetics there are loads of hits suggesting a genetic component. Yet these guys find a seven fold increase if mom had the flu in the first trimester, hmmmmmmm

[PNUTTRO]

reiterate

If Scoliosis was triggered by abnormal hormone levels it would mean that people with Scoliosis were ill and we'd need to find the cause of that illness.

I said "I believe", I have no data. That is why I never said that it is a cause. And I said nothing about abnormal hormone levels.

[PNUTTRO]

Sharon, do you have references for the other twin studies? Perhaps you posted them already but I cant seem to find them (and I understand your argument that it doesnt matter anyway - but still, it would be good to see them)

check the references in this paper

Adolescent idiopathic scoliosis in twins: a population-based survey.
Andersen MO, Thomsen K, Kyvik KO.
Spine. 2007 Apr 15;32(8):927-30.
PMID: 17426641 [PubMed - indexed for MEDLINE]

[PNUTTRO]

As long as you dont crib this one

Last I checked, genes are transmitted sexually. Unless you are a bacteria, virus or clone.

[Pooka1]

And by the way...

Even if it has been shown in other animal models that scoliosis can result from a parasite, it doesn't mean it works that way in humans. Certain animal models are known to differ in certain ways from humans in plenty of respects and for known reasons.

For example, you can't give certain human antibiotics to guinea pigs.

Also, horses have a condition that is essentially Type 2 diabetes or Metabolic syndrome or both but it has a different biology if I am remembering correctly. Horses are vegetarians and humans are omnivores.

Even other primate models may not be informative on scoliosis in humans.

So citing those studies on scoliosis in other species, even if shown to be correct, is not necessarily going to advance the understanding of scoliosis in humans.

[Dingo]

Schizophrenia

concerned dad

And, if you google schizophrenia and genetics there are loads of hits suggesting a genetic component. Yet these guys find a seven fold increase if mom had the flu in the first trimester, hmmmmmmm

Yep, and it's even more painfully obvious than that.

Children born in cities are roughly twice as likely to suffer from Schizophrenia.

Season of birth is also a risk factor for Schizophrenia.

Schizophrenia hits around 1% of the population. (natural selection?)

Depending on the study Schizophrenia concordance is all over the place but it's not 100%.

These are all huge red flags that Schizophrenia is not typically a "genetic" disease.

Fortunately progress is finally being made.

June 2008 - Schizophrenia Susceptibility Genes Directly Implicated in the Life Cycles of Pathogens: Cytomegalovirus, Influenza, Herpes simplex, Rubella, and Toxoplasma gondii

Within a decade or two we'll have vaccines against most or all of these. I am cautiously optimistic that the rates of Schizophrenia and many other mental illnesses will drop off dramatically in future generations.

[Dingo]

re-reiterate

PNUTTRO

I said "I believe", I have no data. That is why I never said that it is a cause. And I said nothing about abnormal hormone levels.

I realize that you can't prove this one way or the other but you must have a reason to suspect hormones or other natural phenomenon. I have no direct evidence that a pathogen causes Scoliosis but I have several logical reasons to suspect that one does.

If Scoliosis is not caused by environmental damage why do you suspect that MZ twins are discordant most of the time?