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  • Singe Nerves?

    !! Ahhhh!!

    So, I call my doc today. I know its comming, shots are wearing off. I am onlly up a few hours and reguardless of physical activity need ibuprophen added to my day on top of other medacine for hip joints. Blah! So I call. Nurse calls back, chatts with me a bit, and then says they have a procedure where the singe "burn?" the nerves? could potentially provide releif for 6mos?
    !! My response!!
    "THAT sound a lil spooky, but gosh 6months would be amazing!"
    she says she is gonna talk with doctor and they will call back when they decided.

    Then I hang up phone and think of a zillion questions! Whats it formally called? Does it hurt? what the recovery like? Is it safe? Do they really singe them?

    !!!I wish they had called today!!
    And goodness! What if they decide not to? not worse position i suppose, stick with my injections... But.. 6 mos... Gosh that would be , very nice indeed.

    Anyone know what she was talking about? and info could share?

    Thanks So much,
    dani

  • #2
    nerve root ablations

    Hi Dani, I think it's called the above. Rainbow 2010 just posted something on it and I PM'd her/him to get more information as I'm about to have that procedure done as well. I feel exactly the same way as you 6 months or so of relief - I'll take it!. Hopefully Rainbow will respond to my message and I'll share with you. My second shot is wearing off as well. Boy when it works isn't it great? I wish you well. LYNN
    1981 Surgery with Harrington Rod; fused from T2 to L3 - Dr.Keim (at 26 years old)
    2000 Partial Rod Removal
    2001 Right Scapular Resection
    12/07/2010 Surgical stabilization L3 through sacrum with revision harrington rod instrumentation, interbody fusion and pre-sacral fusion L5-S1 - Dr. Boachie (at 56 years old)
    06/11/14 - Posterior cervical fusion C3 - T3 (Mountaineer System) due to severely arthritic joints - Dr. Patrick O'Leary (at age 59)

    Comment


    • #3
      !!!! Thank you
      I hope she calls tomorrow!!
      Still sounds spooky...
      !!Oh!!
      6mo!!!
      Good thing I picked up a new nora roberts today... Just cant seem to stopp thinking about it.

      Comment


      • #4
        "Radiofrequency Nerve Ablation
        Facet joints are one source of back pain. Radiofrequency nerve ablation uses radio waves to produce heat directed at a specific facet joint nerve. The heat destroys the nerve and relieves pain.

        The ablation procedure is similar to a nerve block or spinal joint injection except two needles are inserted; each facet joint has two nerves. Fluoroscopic guidance is used to correctly position each needle. Then radiofrequency "radio waves" are directed through each needle. The ablation process takes about two minutes. The entire procedure takes about 2 hours."

        Whoa, thats cool

        Comment


        • #5
          I have an appointment on 12-10 to have injections to numb the nerves. My pain management doctor is going to do it. He said he would try it twice and if it helped with the pain for 6 hours, he would go in an permanently numb the nerve. Since I hurt from the base of my skull down to my toes at times, that is a lot of nerve numbing. He said it is not steriods as I refuse to do those. This is numbing the nerve. When will you be doing it?? Has anyone else done it?

          Comment


          • #6
            Nerve ablations are great! You get 8 - 12 months relief and my doctor said after 3 treatments, the nerves don't grow back. I have had T8 - T12 done twice and T4 -T8 done once.
            T12- L5 fusion 1975 - Rochester, NY
            2002 removal of bottom of rod and extra fusion
            3/1/11 C5-C6 disc replacement
            Daughter - T7 - L3 fusion 2004

            Comment


            • #7
              Here's what I posted in a similar thread (I linked, rather than reposting, because there's some additional discussion there).

              As others have said, rhizotomies/RF ablation can work wonders.

              http://scoliosis.org/forum/showpost....6&postcount=20

              Good luck ... it's definitely worth a try!

              Regards,
              Pam
              Fusion is NOT the end of the world.
              AIDS Walk Houston 2008 5K @ 33 days post op!


              41, dx'd JIS & Boston braced @ 10
              Pre-op ±53°, Post-op < 20°
              Fused 2/5/08, T4-L1 ... Darrell S. Hanson, Houston


              VIEW MY X-RAYS
              EMAIL ME

              Comment


              • #8
                Originally posted by joanne mclaurin View Post
                ... He said it is not steriods as I refuse to do those. ...
                Joanne,

                Out of curiousity, why the refusal the try steroid injections? I did actually get *some* pre-op pain relief (bear in mind I was immune from almost anything in the pain management arsenal) from a combo of bupivicaine/cortisone with facet joint injections.

                And, yes ... generally the first step is to try a diagnostic nerve root block and/or FJ injections with just bupivicaine (or some other anesthetic) that can give relief for ±6 hours IF it's going to work. If the anesthetic only gives relief, the same injection - repeated with the addition of a steroid - can produce VERY nice results in some people for several weeks. There are even instances after FJ injections where the pain NEVER returns.

                I guess my question is, are you just personally against steroids - or is there some other reason you can't have them?

                There is actually a reason I'm curious:

                The area you have planned for RF ablation is quite large: With each additional level included in the rhizotomy, your risk of a partial burn at one or more of the levels increases. I couldn't really tell if you've had ablation done before, but partial burns (just IMO ... I had some) are far worse than NO burn. I'm not telling you this to frighten you, but partial burns are more likely to occur in areas where the spine is rotated (and medial branch nerves are not where they should be).

                While I did get good initial results with my cervical burns, the pedicles up there also indicated 0 rotation. In the thoracic area, the burn was attempted at T9 (my curve apex - ±53°, with a +2 rotation): The anesthesiologist actually had to go under the *left* side of my spine to reach the right medial branch nerve, and only a partial burn was achieved (MAJOR sadness).

                Of course it's a personal decision, but I would encourage you to at least consider cortisone injections first (if you're able). The risk of long term nerve damage from a partial nerve ablation - that can cause even *more* pain - is absent, and you may very well get a satisfactory result simply by reducing the inflammation over such a large area.

                Just a different perspective ...

                Good luck whatever you try.

                Regards,
                Pam
                Last edited by txmarinemom; 11-26-2008, 03:51 AM. Reason: fat fingers~
                Fusion is NOT the end of the world.
                AIDS Walk Houston 2008 5K @ 33 days post op!


                41, dx'd JIS & Boston braced @ 10
                Pre-op ±53°, Post-op < 20°
                Fused 2/5/08, T4-L1 ... Darrell S. Hanson, Houston


                VIEW MY X-RAYS
                EMAIL ME

                Comment


                • #9
                  Well shoot.
                  After careful deliberation they decided not to do it. I am schedualed to go in for my nerve block, facets again in few weeks.
                  This is awfull, but .. I had dreamed maybe, I donno.
                  I am happy with the help I am getting now, nothings changed really. Thou, oh what a wonderful dream that was... But! Atleast im not wondering in the endless fog of pain. I have a good routeen going and im sure he carefully decided what was best in the end.

                  !!!
                  Hey, No pain for christmas thou!
                  Which is good because my mother in law is comming for a month and i hate for her to see me.. at my worst LOL

                  Comment


                  • #10
                    "but partial burns are more likely to occur in areas where the spine is rotated (and medial branch nerves are not where they should be)."

                    Bleh, I think you just in accidentally answered the question that has plagued my mind all day.. and that is "Why not?"

                    Where my curve is rotated on verticle axis is only place, believe it or not, that "hurts" for me. Everything else is easily controlled with heat, exercise and Arnica gel.

                    I wish i .. bleh.


                    Sure you cant just catalog all your knowladge in to one big database for us?

                    Comment


                    • #11
                      Originally posted by Danihenson View Post
                      Well shoot.
                      After careful deliberation they decided not to do it. I am schedualed to go in for my nerve block, facets again in few weeks.
                      This is awfull, but .. I had dreamed maybe, I donno.
                      I am happy with the help I am getting now, nothings changed really. Thou, oh what a wonderful dream that was... But! Atleast im not wondering in the endless fog of pain. I have a good routeen going and im sure he carefully decided what was best in the end.
                      Dani,

                      I hope MY experience didn't change your mind ... I knew of the partial burn risk going in, and chose to try the thoracic rhizotomy (in a significantly rotated area) anyway. PT, myofascial release massage, Rolfing, meds, and too many other things to name had failed to even dull the pain, and I was *desperate* to make it stop.

                      The stats I've seen are about 2% chance of increased pain from a partial burn in the general population, but it's difficult to compare that to the scoliotic population.

                      You know ... another option you may not have considered is accupuncture. When my anesthesiologist exhausted all avenues, he referred me to a Vietnamese M.D. who used very, very thin e-stim needles (it wasn't painful at ALL). I went for the initial treatment, and for the first time since I was 9 or 10, my back didn't hurt. Eventually, that treatment stopped working for me too, but other people have seen good results over the longer term. As a minimally invasive option, it may be worth consideration for you at some point.

                      As others have said, ablations can be great when they're successful. Only you and your doctor can say what's best in YOUR case.

                      Don't give up trying to find what works for you!

                      Good luck ;-).
                      Pam
                      Fusion is NOT the end of the world.
                      AIDS Walk Houston 2008 5K @ 33 days post op!


                      41, dx'd JIS & Boston braced @ 10
                      Pre-op ±53°, Post-op < 20°
                      Fused 2/5/08, T4-L1 ... Darrell S. Hanson, Houston


                      VIEW MY X-RAYS
                      EMAIL ME

                      Comment


                      • #12
                        Whoops ...

                        I read too quickly, Dani, and now see you wrote the *doctor* decided not to do it.

                        Chin up ... my fingers are crossed this round of FJ injections last you a long while!

                        Regards,
                        Pam
                        Fusion is NOT the end of the world.
                        AIDS Walk Houston 2008 5K @ 33 days post op!


                        41, dx'd JIS & Boston braced @ 10
                        Pre-op ±53°, Post-op < 20°
                        Fused 2/5/08, T4-L1 ... Darrell S. Hanson, Houston


                        VIEW MY X-RAYS
                        EMAIL ME

                        Comment


                        • #13
                          Originally posted by txmarinemom View Post
                          Joanne,

                          Out of curiousity, why the refusal the try steroid injections? I did actually get *some* pre-op pain relief (bear in mind I was immune from almost anything in the pain management arsenal) from a combo of bupivicaine/cortisone with facet joint injections.

                          And, yes ... generally the first step is to try a diagnostic nerve root block and/or FJ injections with just bupivicaine (or some other anesthetic) that can give relief for ±6 hours IF it's going to work. If the anesthetic only gives relief, the same injection - repeated with the addition of a steroid - can produce VERY nice results in some people for several weeks. There are even instances after FJ injections where the pain NEVER returns.

                          I guess my question is, are you just personally against steroids - or is there some other reason you can't have them?

                          There is actually a reason I'm curious:

                          The area you have planned for RF ablation is quite large: With each additional level included in the rhizotomy, your risk of a partial burn at one or more of the levels increases. I couldn't really tell if you've had ablation done before, but partial burns (just IMO ... I had some) are far worse than NO burn. I'm not telling you this to frighten you, but partial burns are more likely to occur in areas where the spine is rotated (and medial branch nerves are not where they should be).

                          While I did get good initial results with my cervical burns, the pedicles up there also indicated 0 rotation. In the thoracic area, the burn was attempted at T9 (my curve apex - ±53°, with a +2 rotation): The anesthesiologist actually had to go under the *left* side of my spine to reach the right medial branch nerve, and only a partial burn was achieved (MAJOR sadness).

                          Of course it's a personal decision, but I would encourage you to at least consider cortisone injections first (if you're able). The risk of long term nerve damage from a partial nerve ablation - that can cause even *more* pain - is absent, and you may very well get a satisfactory result simply by reducing the inflammation over such a large area.

                          Just a different perspective ...

                          Good luck whatever you try.

                          Regards,
                          Pam
                          I have no idea if this will work in responding to your question, I am NOT computer savy - do good to get this done. Anyhow. I had the steriod injections about two years ago and they did help some. The relief was not worth the weight gain. I ate like a horse and could not stop. I gain twent pounds in two months. I could tell a difference in my back, the base of my spine was much more painful. The doctor seems to agree that they were not for me. I do hope these other injections help some. I am on slow release morphine and percucet (excuse spelling!!) and still painful.

                          Anyway thanks for your input, that is what I need. It is so good to be able to relate to others that KNOW what kind and how much pain flatback can cause.

                          Thanks again!

                          Comment


                          • #14
                            Originally posted by joanne mclaurin View Post
                            I have no idea if this will work in responding to your question, I am NOT computer savy - do good to get this done. ...
                            LOL ... you did just fine - no worries ;-).

                            Originally posted by joanne mclaurin View Post
                            Anyway thanks for your input, that is what I need. It is so good to be able to relate to others that KNOW what kind and how much pain flatback can cause.
                            I didn't realize you were suffering from flatback - or that you were even previously fused - and erroneously assumed (just from the location of this thread) you were pre-op. My pain was all before fusion: While I'd rather have not gone to that extreme to address it, I'm VERY thankful modern surgery remedied mine.

                            If you'd like, use the email link in my signature here (or private message me, if you're familiar with that) and I'll be more than happy to help you set one (a signature) up for yourself that tells people a bit more about your situation so they can respond to your posts/questions more appropriately.

                            That's unfortunate you had such an adverse reaction to injections, and an odd one . Normally, localized steroidal injections (as in facet joint or sacroiliac joint) shouldn't cause ANY weight gain ... but without knowing the specifics of what you had done, well ... I'll just shut up now ;-).

                            I would encourage you to discuss the risk of partial burn (simply because of the many levels slated) with your pain management doctor. Best of luck to you on whatever you try: I hope some pain relief is coming for you!

                            Best regards,
                            Pam
                            Fusion is NOT the end of the world.
                            AIDS Walk Houston 2008 5K @ 33 days post op!


                            41, dx'd JIS & Boston braced @ 10
                            Pre-op ±53°, Post-op < 20°
                            Fused 2/5/08, T4-L1 ... Darrell S. Hanson, Houston


                            VIEW MY X-RAYS
                            EMAIL ME

                            Comment

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